Code Generation Horror

Scriptcase 9 General
#10

Here is something impressing http://www.filemaker.com/products/demos/#fm-create-solutions

http://solutions.filemaker.com/made-for-filemaker/search.jsp?category=5

I do not want to comment on product or compare it to SC as it is a little bit different solution, but just the way it is presented, and the whole documentation part should be an example on how things should be done. they have done excellent job ! I wish SC would have at least 50% of that functionality. Their site is excellent - easy to navigate full of information with clean layout and features and products clearly explained.

Art

#11

Albert - I understand that beating the complain drum won’t help on the forum, but the intent here is to make other users aware of the problem and have them send messages to SC support and management team as well as on this forum so perhaps some one finally make a decision about those important issues.
If you like to use a language dictionary while working on software development - that’s fine - I HATE DOING THIS and it drives me nuts !
For the code - YES - I try to stay away from dealing with generated code, until I run into some problems, bugs, errors etc. Then I have no choice but lookup into it and it is like opening Pandora’s Box! Box full of sheet!
THE MISTAKE of embeding Portugese into the code was probably made long time ago when SC started, but if your statement is true (about SC being on the market for 15 yrs) it makes things even worse because that proves that this same insane approach is continued for so many years. Sorry but I see no excuse for that.
I’m glad you still have energy to struggle with NetMake for improvements but we really need more users keep pushing company management to change their paradigm.

Art

#12

I like this one better.

http://www.alphasoftware.com/

Check the quick app creation. plus the best feature… offline support.

Regards

#13

It’s why am working on obtaining an independent user group as most companies have one. Individual complaints are easily ignored. In the current situation, afaik most of the Brazilian devs do not speak a decent level of English, so changing variable names from portugues to english would be difficult. Look at the sample of the webshop where even the items table is called itens. But despite these issues I want the product to be bugfree so that I don’t have to dive into generated code. I find changing variable names a waste of time for now as there are more important issue to solve imho. Oh, and I do know filemaker. As I said, I’ll stick to SC.

#14

+1

I would push for:

  • better documentation (videos are not very usable as quick reference and the written docs could be improved)
  • more macros (e.g. changing button names on event)
  • reliability, i.e. fixing bugs
  • improving the IDE by adding\improving features to avoid manual repetitive operations
#15

consistent macros like odd differences between field properties in grids, but not in forms
in the future:
integration of a php debugger like xdebug, open source-d code templates, expandable with 3rd party plugins.

#16

Albert:

I appreciate your efforts, please keep on it… something tells me you are one of the main reasons NM is improving… I’m trying to participate in this forums to enrich not only myself but community members as well, so I take your input with high regard.

Truth is that if we posts comments like this in the forums is because we as users of SC want SC itself to be better.

Regards

#17

Consistency. Good point.

In the future:

  • A must: Mobile \ Responsive forms

  • Nice to have: Grid with fixed headers and scroll bar

freeze-gridview.png

#18

here is another fragment 50% non-English , that just popped out on my screen a minute ago:

Id do menu nao encontrado.
class:
file: C:\Program Files\NetMake\v8\wwwroot\scriptcase\devel\lib\php\functions.inc.php
function: StartIncItensCoolJsMenu
line: 2670
topico -> [fields_tit]	Id do menu nao encontrado.
class:
file: C:\Program Files\NetMake\v8\wwwroot\scriptcase\devel\lib\php\functions.inc.php
function: StartIncItensCoolJsMenu
line: 2670
topico -> [events_tit_ajax]	Id do menu nao encontrado.
class:
file: C:\Program Files\NetMake\v8\wwwroot\scriptcase\devel\lib\php\functions.inc.php
function: StartIncItensCoolJsMenu
line: 2670
topico -> [fields_app_tit]	Id do menu nao encontrado.
class:
file: C:\Program Files\NetMake\v8\wwwroot\scriptcase\devel\lib\php\functions.inc.php
function: StartIncItensCoolJsMenu
line: 2670
topico -> [link_tit]
#19

Arthur, you know if you dive into the code you will find tons of samples. You made your point already, so what are you trying to prove?

#20

Albert,

I think that the main reason that some of us tend to repeat the same complaints over and over is because it seems like they are either:

  1. Not heard by NetMake.

or

  1. Heard but ignored.

As a parent, I learned that many times I have to tell my children the same thing repeatedly, sometimes in different words, before they think about what I am saying and act upon it.

I am sorry if I seem like I am repeating myself, or “beating the complaint drum”, but tell me - What other option is there for us paying customers to get NetMake to listen to us? Or to acknowledge the fact that they have many, many dissatisfied and/or unhappy customers?

In addition, I feel a moral obligation to those people who are evaluating ScriptCase. If I knew a year ago what I know now about NetMake, would not have bought ScriptCase. Unfortunately, I too have far too much time and effort invested in customer projects to simply drop everything and change now.

Again, Albert, I am sorry if my posting of my opinion upsets you, or if you are dissatisfied with the “type of man” that I am.

Dave

#21

Dave I’m not upset fast. I’ll drink a beer with you and Arthur if we would ever meet, in fact I’ll buy you one. Realy no bad feelings. I can even understand the frustration as we have them too from time to time. We had to wait for numerous new versions before we could move on with new updates because of a showstopper finally fixed, and if you have been reading my postst you would know that I have put a lot of critisism here.

The main difference is that I always believe in ‘thinking in solutions’, not in problems. There is a choice: nag the whole time, add of topic issues like ‘this is bad, and that should change’. Doesn’t help, but perhaps it brings you relief. It will drive you away from Scriptcase and perhaps that’s the best solution for you. For me I want to stay with the product because it still is a great product and believe me, I’ve experienced my worse nightmare with a few competitors before I started with Scriptcase. But of course that has troubled my mind a bit. We realy have no argue about the fact that QC needs to improve including beta testing etc. But if these issues where to be solved Scriptcase would be a super product.

Therefore I invite you to make a decision, let’s unite with the power users in an attempt to work on improving the quality of SC support and all the other valid issues you have (realy I agree!). Bring up some positive idea’s how to work on that. It will help you to protect your currrent investment, it will give you the opportunity to turn the steering wheel yourself, at least a bit.
The other option is to start working with other tools for your other development and slowly move away. That’s another ‘solution based’ thinking.

Of course you can also stay in your boat and let the sea decide where it will bring you. You can keep on complaining about almost everything, but you still have to wait and see. Businesswise, that’s deadly.

Hope I didn’t offended you, because that was not my intention.

#22

Albert,

That is exactly what I thought I have been doing for the past year, uniting with all of the power users, providing bug reports, instructions to reproduce, hints to get around the bugs, etc. I have suggested numerous times that NetMake hire somebody who understands Software Development Lifecycle, Testing, and Customer Relations. I would even be very responsive to NetMake if they were to ask for suggestions or volunteer effort, but they do not. Our voices are not heard by NetMake. How can I change that? Tell me and I will do it!

Dave

#23

Thanks for this post Dave. Do you mind if I post you somewhere next week in private?

#24

Albert,

That is perfectly fine. I will pm you my email.

Dave

#25

I have it, I get your spam reports :wink:

#26

Can I enter on this discussion? :stuck_out_tongue:

#27

Yes, of course. I have send you a PM

#28

Oh…I mean about the thread…but its ok…I will take a look

#29

Well I thought this discussion is public, and we can brainstorm here what can we do to have NetMake do certain things. I guess the only way is to consolidate into one voice and keep posting, emailing, calling etc. I really do not have an intention to get new users away from the product or insult anybody. If we have different opinions - I do not mind. Albert is (I would say) with one foot on the other side as he is a SC reseller so I understand his view. No one here wants to attack Net Make or any employee. Many of users on this forum are very familiar though with SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE. We are all also developers so we get through the same process that NetMake does, therefore most of us know what is missing. The only one thing we do not know is how to make company interact with hundreds of people on this forum who perhaps have excellent solutions to the problems or at least some god advice. So far the only few responses on this whole forum from NetMake are from those (like Bartho etc.) who post automatic message (“I will report it to our bug team”). I would expect more interaction from the company !

Art

PS>
Albert - even if we disagree on minor issues I still buy you a beer or will be happy to share a glass of wine with you :wink:
That’s if you ever decide to make a trip to US