Dear NETMAKE - your ignorance is overwhelming

Scriptcase 8 Discussion
#1

This topic has been brought myriad of times. Most users are frustrated to the point that some are questioning using SC and switching to other tools. To be honest - If I’m not in a middle of the project I would do this as well. I have sent numerous posts on the forum and emails to NetMake management asking to finally start developing in English.

Today I just opened internal library page in SC and was shocked by the level or ignorance that NetMake developers show to the world. I’m simply pissed off!
I BOUGHT PRODUCT WHICH SUPPOSED TO BE DEVELOPED AND WORK IN ENGLISH - NOT PORTUGEESE. WHY IN ORDER TO WORK WITH SC I HAVE TO USE LANGUAGE DICTIONARY ?

I REALLY WANT NETMAKE TO DO SOMETINH ABOUT IT BECAUSE THIS IS AS UNPROFESSIONAL AS IT GETS !

[SIZE=22px]NETMAKE DEVELOPERS - PLEASE CONVERT SCRIPTCASE TO ENGLISH !

[SIZE=18px]If you cannot learn and develop in English - limit selling Scriptcase to your country only, then nobody will complain.[/SIZE]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n66110[/ATTACH][/SIZE]

NonEnglish_Libs.jpg

#2

if this is not enough look at the code (this is just random file I picked from the library).
the code inside LIB files has the same language issue !

this is just total disaster

exportWord.php - prueba de exportar a word
   0|  <?php
1|
2|    
3| function exportWord($sql1 = ''){
4|        
5|     set_time_limit(0);
6|     header('Content-type: application/vnd.ms-word');
7|     header("Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=RutinaCopeteMaterialPresentador.doc");
8|     header("Pragma: no-cache");
9|     header("Expires: 0");
10|    
11|     $slq = $sql1;
12|    
13|     sc_select(dataset, $slq);
14|    
15|     //Creando Tabla
16|     echo "
17|          <h1>Copete Material del Presentador</h1>
18|          <table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0'>
19|          <tr>
20|          
21|          <th>Orden</th>
22|          <th>Tipo Transmision</th>
23|          <th>Periodista</th>
24|          <th>Rutina</th>
25|          <th>Copete</th>
26|          <th>Material</th>
27|          <th>Duracion Rutina</th>
28|          <th>Fec. Emision Rutina</th>
29|          <th>Fec. Creacion Rutina</th>
30|          </tr>
31|     ";
32|    
33|     foreach({dataset} as $campos){
34|        
35|         echo "<tr>    
36|          <th>".$campos['Orden']."</th>
37|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['TipoTransDesc'])."</th>
38|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['Periodista'])."</th>
39|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['RutinaDesc'])."</th>
40|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['CopeteDesc'])."</th>
41|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['MaterialDesc'])."</th>
42|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['RutinaDuracion'])."</th>
43|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['RutFecEmision'])."</th>
44|          <th>".utf8_decode($campos['RutFecCreacion'])."</th>
45|          </tr>";
46|        
47|     }
48|    
49|     echo "</table>";
50| }
51|
52| ?>
#3

I can’t say I disagree with your comments. What’s even more frustrating is the lack of proper documentation and examples. I just spent over 3 weeks debugging a paypal problem. As it turns out, when they implemented the new tab and frame logic, it broke the PayPal class. PayPal doesn’t process frames and when you use Microsoft Edge, it displays that message (when you use Firefox all you get is a blank page with no message). So I ended up downloading a sample PHP PayPal script from phpclasses.org and got it to work with no effort. The difference is the sample code opens up PayPal in a new window (target=_blank) and works perfectly. The sample SC PayPal tutorial is almost 2 years old which means it was done under SC 7. Not even close to SC8.

This is the second bug I’ve found in a month! I’m getting both tired and frustrated QA’ing their code. The first problem was a “language” issue with an sprintf command. It was missing a parameter so the emails were failing to generate. The code that was in error is generated by SC.

#4

NetMake is well know for not fixing bugs (unless they prevent users from using SC at all). Some bugs remain unfixed for years (and many are really easy fix). I do not know what tools or persuasion to use to convinced them that fixing bugs is much more important than implementing another chart in new version, but I’m still under the impression there is something wrong with the management and their priorities. I asked NM several times for some kind of log that can be accessed on-line to see what bugs were reported and fixed several times. There are even free Apps for this, but there has to be somebody on NetMake end to make updates. Albert has installed such software but if there is no NetMake involvement such idea will soon die.

In this post - my main concern is NO ENGLISH !
I just can’t understand why other companies (in non-English countries like Germany, Russia, Sweden, Danmark, Israel.) can do it but NetMake cannot!
but perhaps if we put enough pressure they will go to school for English lessons

#5

Hey Arthur you realise that the majority of english is in the DEMO applications right… Also when viewing some of the code you should be able to figure out whats going on as its only variables which are in brazilian. In some of the new demos english is already being used much more and concidering that you should develop your own apps then its really only you that needs to be able to speak and understand english… So not that I am sticking up for netmake because dam they sure have some issues in the managament and update of their software which really sucks. And if there is really anything that deserves all that loverly red text and massive fonts then it should be fact that things dont fixed fast enough, or parts of the platform which are meant to be included havent been.
In my humble opinion I would think that having the platform stable, working as it should and having the functional aspects which were promissed for the latest version to be included. That should be netmakes priority… not re-writing old demos and scripts which I will never use or pay any attention too as and I am sure all who use scriptcase can make much better platforms than those created for demo purposes…
Just my piece if the pie :slight_smile:

#6

Well interestingly enough they contacted me for the coding fix I made for the PayPal function. So maybe just maybe it will be fixed in the next minor release or 8.2. In any case, they need to spend more time QA’ing their own code. They also need to use open source products that work. This calendar option they implemented really sucks. There are better ones out there the problem is it would probably take major rework for code already developed to use it.

#7

function exportWord($sql1 = ‘’){
$slq = $sql1;
sc_select(dataset, $slq);

That logic…

#8

I could probably get around with the DEMO Apps not translated into English, but using the variables, comments etc in the SC itself drives me nuts and is simply a sign of ignorance. NetMake is not the only company on the planet that develops software for international market while the company resides in non-English speaking country. That is why I do not like it and that is why they really need to change their paradigm - meaning - develop in English first (then translate to Portugese). If this will not change there will be always problems and many people turned off from the product which on the other hand has an unmatched potential. Perhaps it is no easy to find developers speaking English fluently but it is very easy to find an English proof reader to help. This type of work can be done remotely so the market for potential helpers/employees is the whole planet. No excuse for that.

PS> I really have no time to learn Portugese

and here is more of the same crap ! it simply pisses me off !

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n66380[/ATTACH]

and if you scroll down on this same screen there is a tons of non-English variables.
If somebody tells me this is OK or Portugese is only in DEMO projects , then I would recommend to see a doctor

NonEnglish_SessionView.jpg

#9

No argument there Arthur, even thou I need to see a doctor anyway :slight_smile: and nobody should have to learn portuguese lol
I do agree that it would be better to have everything in english, and concerning the variables, it would be even better so to have some explanation as to what they are, then I dont think it would really matter what language they are in as long as they maybe had some help pointers so we had some kind of a clue as to their purpose and useability. Of course being in english would be the best option as just about everybody learns english in school and it is the defacto of IT and coding anyhow it should be the case.
So I do agree with you on many fronts!
I do think that over the last year their english has been improving and some elements have already been converted, but I am also sure you also notice how slow scriptcase devs work, if at all… As I am still waiting on simple fixes to be applied and some additions which I have been dying for for the last years… all of which would be simpler and much faster for them to do than re-write all the pt lingo, yet that hasnt happened… so maybe another 10 years and maybe we will both have what we want by then…
I can only hope that it is much faster before I and for sure yourself move on…
Take it easy and dont stress yourself to much about it, am sure you will find an alternative before you have learnt the language lol

#10

[SIZE=16px]SC is a good tool, I think it was originally designed in another language. and it has helped me a lot in my work and I’m sure many other developers. It is true that sometimes messages appear in Portuguese, but this can not in any way not devalue the great work done by the development SCRIPTCASE team. I 'm sure these minor inconveniences are to be solved as long as new versions are generated .[/SIZE]

#11

Here is another example on the Header page of the design tool. NM_LOGOTIPO

What is logotipo?

#12

Scriptcase uses templates for header and footer and it’s syntax allows you to use your own names like this one. It will allow you to apply a logo image.

I know that Arthur doesn’t agree,but I go for alvagar. If you buy a product you have the chance to evaluate the product. It’s not that difficult to find out that scriptcase is a brazilian product build upon the portuguese language. At least, that was the first thing I found. After my first contact with scriptcase support I found out that their support was pure portuguese based and that most of them didn’t know English at all. I had a lot of laughs seeing that they used googletranslate to translate my question to portuguese and the answer back to english. Unreadable answers where I couldn’t even destilate my original question. Still an issue to them. A lot of their devs are still Portuguese only.

It was not a showstopper for me as I saw the potential of scriptcase and have put a lot of my free and volunteerly time into Scriptcase to help Scriptcase to improve their product. Sometimes with a lot of frustrations, yes. But don’t expect them to rewrite their full product in English.

So accept the product as it is. Try to help them by typos. Just write a nice notice to marcia at scriptcase and she will do the correction in the product. If you don’t like the product, then don’t buy it and choose something else. There is no use yelling, writing big fat letters etc. It won’t help.

#13

Albert,
I agree and if there’s Portoguese in the generated code variables or comments I can live with that. With a tool like scriptcase you’re not supposed to hack the generated code anyway and should stick to its API (i.e. the SC macros).

But if they sell support to an international market and then use Google translate, that’s something very bad.

Also, there are even less excuses for providing a manual that sometimes doesn’t make any sense: if you don’t have internal resources capable of writing in good english, outsource it.

It seems to me that in marketing they invest the money needed to provide videos and text in good english, because they want to lure new customers. In developing and support they couldn’t care less, because the customers has paid already.

#14

Really, This is a great application, but it does have some faults as with any application. They do a wonderful job of fixing things that are brought to their attention through proper channels.

This is one of the best Rapid Application Environments around. Yes there is some others out there, but none that does what this application does. Another plus is that this this web based and it is PHP.

English is their second language, why don’t you learn another language and program a major application in your second language and see how easy it is for you! I bet you will find it very difficult to do.

This application is only a few years old and has got better each and every year, and they are still in business. I started with another application and they are no longer in business, they still sell the product with its problems but there is no active development of any new release.

If you are unhappy with Scriptcase, buy something else, or be nice and write a letter to the proper channels and try to help them, this is not the place for your rants, this is a place to share your knowledge with other users.

Netmake keep up the good work.

#15

Well, that is why you are paying, to get a product instead a language tutorial. Looks like there is not place where customer can see a letter like “ScriptCase main laguage is X”.

This is not easy, imagine using scriptcase to create the main portal for a big company, you can not simply say “bahh SC does not work as I expect, I will buy something else and get my portal buggy/down some days while I found another option”. In development projects there is a line where you say “Ok, there is not going back from here, SC will be the chosen tool for this project”.

#16

Just to be clear.
I like SC a lot and I appreciate what NetMake has done and is doing,
I understand their developers are mostly Portuguese only and that’s why I’m okay if the internal generated code has a lot of Portuguese in it.
What’s (negatively) impressing is the perfect American English in their marketing videos vs. the poor\broken English in the manual.
So it seems that when they want they can hire the right people for the right job.
Why don’t they do the same for the English version of the manual?

@ Tim
English is their second language, why don’t you learn another language and program a major application in your second language and see how easy it is for you! I bet you will find it very difficult to do.

If you are talking about the generated code, I agree.
About the manual is not a good argument: it’s like saying that if you buy a Japanese car in your country, you cannot complain if their user manual is poorly translated into your native language, unless you can write in good Japanese yourself.

#17

I, too, find that ScriptCase is a fantastic tool. I can create really nice looking applications with a minimum of effort.

I couldn’t care less that the internal code is with Portuguese variable names. I have no wish to look into their code and variables – it should be a black box that just works – and mostly that is the case. When I need to program something myself, I have the opportunity to add my own functions and classes as libraries, which is just perfect. In the rare case where I need to access one of their variables directly, I can live with non-meaningful variable name.

I find Arthur’s constant and repetitive ranting about the internal code of SC to be just irritating, and it may give a wrong idea about the general state or workability of ScriptCase. It is in my interest that SC do well and keep adding more features to the product, which they do seem to do.

When it comes to actual bugs, I have only had good experience with SC. They respond to mails send through the proper channels and things do get fixed. They have always put an effort into understanding and reproducing problems. Yes, their English may not be perfect, but we get through with good effort on their part.

So, this leaves the one area, where I really think that SC should improve (and I can see from other posts that there is agreement on this):

THE DOCUMENTATION

The English language in it is quite bad – like it had been run through a Google translation. While that may be just tolerable in a one-to-one email, it is certainly not right for an official documentation.

There is a glaring lack of explanation of parameters and proper examples of usage. This could quite easily be fixed by a programmer with medium working knowledge of English and it should be a work in constant progress. Any educational videos should be linked from the appropriate sections of the documentation.

#18

I currently work for a Fortune 100 company, yes we expect to find some things that need a work around. I am currently working on a project with Scriptcase that is about 5 Million lines of code and it has only taken me about 2 months to get here not 3 or 4 years.

Yes, I have drawn the line and said this is the chosen tool to go forward with. No other tools even compares or even comes close, and trust me we have spent many 10’s of thousands of dollars in the past and have not been happy. We can go from concept to a working model in a matter of minutes, not months or even years. No other product I know of does this. No other product that I know of does it with out bugs…

#19

Just leaving my comment, and I state that this specific comment doesn’t reflect Netmake’s vision at all. Its only my opinion.
Also I am not sure if I am 100% in the statements that will follow:

Scriptcase is a 10+ year old tool which was born to fill a gap in the brazillian market.
I think around 2009 the international market started to gain fuel and by 2010 Netmake the international market was always on our mind whenever we think on improving the tool.
In other words, there is a tons of materials and legacy codes in the tool developed back when SC wasn’t international and we have a small team to handle and maintain this powerful tool that you guys hate / love. (I know bunch of you have mixed feeling, days of joy and days of frustration).

I think it would take a whole year or two to rewrite the poorly designed aspects of our tool.

Now look to the car market for example. your new car model won’t sell more if in two years they only improved the leather in the seat, the shape of the metal in the door, the tissue of the carpet or the material of your panel.
As a client you want a news, you want improvements. A new ABS system, security improvements, a new engine, faster, cleaner, stable tires and the list goes.

That’s what we’re trying to do. Improve the tool, bring news to all costumers, of course, when we redesign some part of the tool we make a clean in the code, and stuff, but its not the priority.

Now, I believe I already told @aka about this in other topics, but he either ignored or is too stubborn to understand this.
If you keep “freaking out” because of silly things like this, people will just ignore you, for example, how we denied your free help to translate things. Thank you for volunteering, but no.

I personally doesn’t care if a client harshly criticize a product he owns. On the contrary, I find it amusing and I love a productive critic, even if it is a bit “spicy”.

TLDR: I hope you guys like the new infinity scroll!

#20
  1. Fast bug fixing is untrue statement
  2. Inability to translate code to another language is untrue (it is just lack of vision and will of doing it). They can continue same mistakes forever
  3. Albert’s statements about testing SC before buying are inappropriate because as myself using the product I’m finding more and more places there there is no English used and it took me months to get to those places.
  4. Whoever is pitching the product - you do not have to do it - this is not a sales thread. We know SC value but most people need simple fixes. Translating into English takes only place once and can be done by outsourcing it.
  5. English is an international language for IT - there is no doubt about it and statements about learning another language or programing are insane. Weather you work in Japan, Russia, China or Kamerun you do software dev in English. If you cannot - go to school to learn.
  6. Logotipo etc. sounds like a poor joke ;-(
  7. I offered personally translation help to NM about 1 year ago. It was ignored !
  8. I requested 100+ fixes (English) within last 2 years. Only less that 1% was fixed.
  9. There are hundreds of companies around the planet offering software for international market. They all deal with the language barrier. Somehow most of the doing much better then NM in that aspect.
  10. Poeple in Philipines can translate the whole documentation into English for less than value of one SC license. If the NM management does not see such opportunity to cooperate with international market, developers, proof-readers etc, that’s pretty bad.

Arthur