Consider yourself lucky not to be an Embarcadero customer. Only their next version gets bugfixes, plus a bunch of new bugs. That means a new version of their RAD IDEs every six months or so.
In comparison SC licensing and updates are positively generous.
hi guys, i want to jump again please
ask yourself this question:
- do SC do this in purpose? for sure no
- do they do everything they can to fix and make things right? well, that vary, because we all know it is not a US-based company to follow standards and certain quality, we know that their management does’t believe in being stable and bugs free means focus on marketing and more $$$
it is a real business to them, i don’t know how they keep value their company, perhaps there they are is not a company with high income, but i guess it is in their culture, and i guess such business is more profitable than any other business now adays, clean, powerful, joy, easy and you are selling licensing God dam it! not something you need to work hard to do it, your real product is what all these guys are saying about bugs, a roadmap should be there, bug tracker (I know Albert made one available, myself couldn’t manage its difficulty - sorry) and more staff to handle the follow up + make bartho head of security guys outside of the building, don’t give him any username or password for anything 
okay guys, what i wanna say is do you have a name of any other software can do what SC does? any other platform that do things in the same way SC does? then if you know, please share with us, it will motivate those guys to work harder and make bugs less in shorter time… by the way, even if they do work all hard (I doubt it) not sharing this stuff step by step with us as community,let us feel that they do nothing… moreover, look at when you send an email to somebody from SC, see how long it takes to reach and get back to you… so, it is not that working hard, it is they may not be in the office all the time then
I dropped my licences for the Embarcadero producst, but they are not the only one with that policy. Mike, I think that SC is working hard to improve their quality, but there is a cultural difference for sure. The main issue is that they need to test before deploy, but I know that 8.1 is on it’s way and they are taking their time because they are still working on the bugs of 8. They will not go for version 9 so there’s definitively improvement in their policy. But I’m a realistic guy too, they have a long way to go. But you have to start from somewhere.
Second, SC is not a huge company with loads of employees and programmers. Perhaps around 7 devs and they can’t do all. The time they use to respond to you will not be used for development. I think you re not the only one ‘bugging’ them 
I’m a developer and sometimes I need a lot of time to find some minor issue. Why? No idea, sometimes it simply is so. That doesn’t mean that I dont work hard… Don’t expect that those devs will solve all the issues (and there where/are many) in a few weeks. But they are currently working hard on them, proven by the recente updates. But it’s a long list because they where more focussed on new features and new version.It appears that that has changed.
There are competative products. If you read their forums you will not find much critisism. That has a reason, lack of bugs is not one of them. Before choosing SC we have done our homework. At the end no product is perfect, but at least SC is an open company although I’m curious to dave’s loss of items…
thanks albert, don’t know why you felt I’m fighting here, i was trying to discuss, I’m with you with every word, don’t be mad please 
Albert,
Do you not remember the conversation? You posted several times in that thread, as did Giu. The last post that I saw was Marcia’s response, I remember being amazed since I had never seen her respond in this forum. A few minutes later the thread no longer existed.
Dave
So, lets be perfectly clear on this. This is a simple example of what I understand to be true:
I report bugs to NetMake, in 8.0.012, 8.0.013 … 8.0.030 and patiently wait for them to do a fix.
I use my own time to diagnose, test, isolate, and report - thereby saving NetMake developers time.
NetMake finally gets around to fixing the problem, say in 8.1.027.
Because my one year has expired, I cannot get the bugfix, unless I pay again.
I am NOT inviting comments about what other companies do, or whether this is a good or bad business model. I just want to make sure that we all understand the policy correctly.
Dave
[QUOTE=daveprue;32711]So, lets be perfectly clear on this. This is a simple example of what I understand to be true:
I report bugs to NetMake, in 8.0.012, 8.0.013 … 8.0.030 and patiently wait for them to do a fix.
I use my own time to diagnose, test, isolate, and report - thereby saving NetMake developers time.
NetMake finally gets around to fixing the problem, say in 8.1.027.
Because my one year has expired, I cannot get the bugfix, unless I pay again.
I am NOT inviting comments about what other companies do, or whether this is a good or bad business model. I just want to make sure that we all understand the policy correctly.
Dave[/QUOTE]
okay i’m not trying to defend them Dave, but they clearly said that bug fixes will be free of charge, just update your version manual even if the upgrade period is expired, they have mechanism to distinguish the new features in your version and prevent them from being updated or something but definitely the bug fixes can be updated without forcing you to purchase the upgrade, I double checked and confirmed this with Marcia
that’s why i was saying earlier they keep themselves busy to add mechanism to distinguish the new features and the bug fixes while they allow to upgrade it manually even if the upgrade period is over
WAIT A MINUTE, PROBLEM IS: this may also mean that they check for your purchased version if it is 8.0.xx and they release 8.1.xx then you are not eligible for the upgrade unless you have valid upgrade… this hence mean they have to close ALL BUGS in 8.0.xx (latest version of sub version 0) before moving to 8.1.xx otherwise you whoever has the upgrade expires, can’t get 8.1.xx along with old bug fixes, is that true??? WTF grrrrrrrr if this is true!!! I’ve renewed the upgrade anyway, but if this theory is true it doesn’t make sense as Dave is saying guys, we rather calling it “cheating” if they force you to have the upgrade in order to get 8.1 while it is full of bugs they will fix in 8.0.xx and of course bugs 8.1 will be more as new “features” will be more and for sure, do not surprise if old bugs comes up to top again and so on loooooo
Mike,
[QUOTE=MikeDE;32721]
WAIT A MINUTE, PROBLEM IS: this may also mean that they check for your purchased version if it is 8.0.xx and they release 8.1.xx then you are not eligible for the upgrade unless you have valid upgrade… this hence mean they have to close ALL BUGS in 8.0.xx (latest version of sub version 0) before moving to 8.1.xx otherwise you whoever has the upgrade expires, can’t get 8.1.xx along with old bug fixes, is that true??? WTF grrrrrrrr if this is true!!! I’ve renewed the upgrade anyway, but if this theory is true it doesn’t make sense as Dave is saying guys, we rather calling it “cheating” if they force you to have the upgrade in order to get 8.1 while it is full of bugs they will fix in 8.0.xx and of course bugs 8.1 will be more as new “features” will be more and for sure, do not surprise if old bugs comes up to top again and so on loooooo[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I have been trying to get across to everyone.
All the bugs that they choose to fix in 8.1.xx instead of 8.0.xx we need to pay for. If they had some online tracking of bugs, with an estimate of what version it will be fixed, then at least we could make an intelligent decision about whether to upgrade or not. The way things are now, we can only guess what they may or may not fix in upcoming versions. (also what they may break).
Dave
Dave: no that’s not what I’ve been told by SC. As long as you stay in version 8 bugfixes will apply. Only new functionality will not and is depending on your subscription. It would have been different if SC choose to go to version 9, but they are not and as I’m told they have no current plans to do so.
I know that you have all kind of reasons to nag, but please stay with the facts and try to avoid to append all kind of remarks that is not helping anyone of us. If there’s a version 8.1 and you will not receive the bugfixes for 8 then I would like to know as I will address SC for it.
We’re all volunteers here and in the same boat as you. I get irritated to read the remarks everytime as it adds nothing and they don’t make your points stronger, no matter how valid they are.
you are right Albert, I’m sorry from my side, I’m sure Dave doesn’t mean to harm or irritate anybody, we all agree about the slowness of bug fixing, yet we are happy to wait, to the extend of human being can wait
I strongly agree with you about we judge when we confirm, lets don’t rush it, if we saw that bug fixes (whenever, even if in 8.1) they force us somehow to have valid upgrade in order to get the bug fixes, then we have the right to nag and talk further
I noticed that each application is created it has in the application tab > settings, the number of the current version that sc was used when first that application was created, I guess it may be also an indicator for them to still give you bug fixes to application created using that version?
one more conclusion: notice when they list the changelog they release them under specific categories, so maybe (lets assume well) maybe they have internal mechanism to distinguish it “smartly” after all, although it adds extra performance drop if this is correct… lets hope so anway
cheer it up guys, its Monday loooool
[QUOTE=aducom;32731]Dave: no that’s not what I’ve been told by SC. As long as you stay in version 8 bugfixes will apply. Only new functionality will not and is depending on your subscription. It would have been different if SC choose to go to version 9, but they are not and as I’m told they have no current plans to do so.
I know that you have all kind of reasons to nag, but please stay with the facts and try to avoid to append all kind of remarks that is not helping anyone of us. If there’s a version 8.1 and you will not receive the bugfixes for 8 then I would like to know as I will address SC for it.
We’re all volunteers here and in the same boat as you. I get irritated to read the remarks everytime as it adds nothing and they don’t make your points stronger, no matter how valid they are.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Albert, I do not mean to upset your day. I will not comment on the topic further. I guess time will tell what happens when 8.1 gets released.
Dave
[QUOTE=daveprue;32736]Sorry, Albert, I do not mean to upset your day. I will not comment on the topic further. I guess time will tell what happens when 8.1 gets released.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Dave, we all know that SC has a lot of things to improve, and I know that I’m closer to them to see changes towards the right direction. But it goes slow and I can understand that this works on the nerves of many people including mine. I have waited over 9 versions before upgrading until a showstopper (for us) was fixed. But if I demand professionalism from them (and I work hard on that, believe me) I need to stay professional too. Nagging and ranting does not help me nor anybody so I try to avoid that and I’m human too Dave. Sometimes I need to hold myself