Is Scriptcase people is listening our comments?

Scriptcase 8 Discussion
#1

Some time ago, I’m checking all comments from Discussion and Bugs space, I saw comments from many people, but around one month, I can not see any comment from Scriptcase people, in other old topics, I swa that comment that “this bug is reported…” or some comment like this, but not lately. The other thing, is the many BUGs reported and open so far, why is this? Is SC people listening to us?

SC is a good tool, but some time I think that have a lot quantities of BUGs and in some time, will be very dificult handled all.

May be we need to hear that they are pending of any user, is not mather that have support or not, among other things, because the support not have SLAs to resolve the issues, at least to me, happened that resolve cases after that my support expire.

My purpose with this post, is that SC will be better for all.

Regards,

AYMG

#2

ScriptCase developers do sometimes look at the forum, but it varies a lot.

If you have a bug that you want their attention on, you can try to send an email to bugs@netmake.com.br. They may only reply if you have an active license, but long as I am using the tool, I want to get new features, bug fixes, etc. So, that is not an issue for me.

I can only agree with you that it would be great if there was more interaction between the ScriptCase company and the users. However, I think that they are more focused on developing more features and products as well as sales and marketing – particularly for their home market of Brazil. Personally, I think they could move to another order of magnitude as a company, if they improved their documentation and interaction with the users through e.g. the forum, but they also have paid support, so it is a balance, I suppose.

#3

I agree!

Especially in the Bugs forum, and for suggestions, it would be [SIZE=36px]“friendly”[/SIZE] for ScriptCase to post a message that they have seen the message.

At least we would know that they welcome our comments and suggestions.

Silence gives the impression that they don’t care. I would hope that is not the case.

#4

I recentrly spoke with Marcia. I offered a service/App to track all the bugs. I asked if they would participate in it. The only thing I requested from NetMAke was to check the list every time something is fixed and mark it as such. The reply was negative - meaning they do not want to do it. IT seems like they are overwhelmed with other activities/ Perhaps if there is enough pressure from the community they finally somehow find the time to do it.

#5

This will not happen. @aducom offered a lot of times his Mantis for sync. They use mantis to track, but is in portuguese, and is private. This “feature” was asked by @aducom and me a lot of times without success. CEO says no, and is no.

#6

yes Giu - I read your lips and it doesn’t sound promising, maybe we need to change CEO ? :wink:

#7

It would help if he would be willing to talk to us directly, but afaik he’s P. only. Marcia and Carlos are good willing, but they are employees. They do pass our information through but have no influence on what the ceo thinks and wants. At least it’s a matter of long breath. Sometimes there are (small) successes.

I have opened our mantis and hoped that by creating a strong community we would have more power to get things done. Unfortunately that initiative was not very successful. Not in the least because there where just a very limited amount of people registering. I do have demands about the quality of reporting bugs. Perhaps that limit was too high for some. But I’m not going to investigate in each obscure bug trying to document it in a way that sc can do something about it.

#8

Albert - I spoke with Marcia some time ago and she clearly said they will not spend time on tracking bugs (even minimal time which is checking what has been fixed and watching what has been registered). Mantis project is kinda complex and require some time for the user. If anything would ever succeed it must be super simple and very quick to use. Most DEVs have no time to learn new system. I know you might say it is not complex, but it still require some time. Even a fact to create a new account, confirmation, etc already adds time. It would be super easy if NetMake would just allow to use their users database (even the one from the forum). If would eliminate creating new accounts, storing passwords etc. On the other hand I really appreciate your efforts to help. Personally I can’t imagine how software company can function without public bug tracking - THIS IS A MUST. Although CEO thinks it isn’t. We are at the dead end :frowning:

I think I can make an assumption that NetMake simply does not want to keep public bug tracking because they not fixing bugs. They fix perhaps most critical which prevent development but everything else is not fixed. They philosophy is to add as much new stuff ass possible because when the release new version they can charge and make a profit. We all know very well that certain bugs (not critical but very serious) are not fixed for years.

#9

What can I say. It does take time for sure but on the other hand, bugs get fixed. It’s a matter of priority where to spend the resources to, and I must agree: they follow other principles then I do.

#10

May we can to explore other tools like Laravel, SC is a very good tool, but a tool with many bugs and the worst, no fixed or that end user feel that we are not important for the company, the users will go to other side.

I hope that SC can read this and keep a eye and the most important, resources in order that can deploy a better tool without many issues.

#11

There is nothing wrong with Laravel, but it’s a completely different tool with different problems. Same goes for tools like YUI, Dojo, etc. There is no such thing as ‘the ultimate tool’. The main issue of Scriptcase is not the product. It’s by far more productive than using frameworks. It’s the way they manage their customers. I have tried a lot over the years to get that process more transparent. But, above all, that’s not an issue of sales, they want to improve these things. It’s a matter of ceo, his will is law. And culture: don’t do today what you can do tomorrow. Unfortunately.

#12

I agree!

I as a customer feel very “unloved” by Scriptcase.
Do they care for us? Do they want us to do well?

For a start, they could show up more often on these forums.

#13

oh, this topic again, almost every few months :smiley:

here will save you some time… nothing will happen and you will keep using SC happily, it will in fact teach you how to be “workaround” guru

then after few months, again, bug tracker offer, more commitment required from SC management… nothing serious

few more updates from SC guys, cover some points and bugs for some of us, some people will draw smiles

new guys get to SC, then again go through the power that SC can provide, and discover what can be done better, request for support, follow up… bug issues… full excitement… escalate to request to change CEO, some american company to take over and show real business and quality, roadmap for the next 10 years and how it can be much much better … agree,

more time -> again, this topic in next few months once more and so on :slight_smile:

cheers, its Friday :smiley:

#14

This is a loop

#15

indeed agree Giu, I remember you were with us when this was raised many times before, hope you are still young enough to remember :smiley:

cheers

#16

Hi all,

“… It’s a matter of ceo, his will is law. And culture: don’t do today what you can do tomorrow. Unfortunately.” in that way, like he don’t want to see this problems, may be he should see when the people do the migration to other tools, my point is, they are “in confort zone” because is not easy this change, but if a lot people send messages with this warning or we can find some tool to migrate, the CEO could change your way of think, we need to do pression by some way, I dont know what you think you.

AYMG

#17

Not sure if it is a matter of culture, CEO or just a character. The fact is that I’m intensively looking to switch to other product. Even if I find one (have few candidates) I still have few projects made in SC and need to maintain them somehow. That is the worst part, because to re-make them from scratch (even with the structures and logic in place already) would take long time and NetMake will not cover this cost. My wish is that some other company will take over the concept and continue with much better quality.
The problem here is that neither CEO or managers at NetMake seem to care to read those posts on the forum. Few people of contact (like Marcia etc.) are already overwhelmed with complains but their hands are tied and there isn’t much they can do.
I observer very similar situation to YES SOFTWARE - the makes of CODE CHARGE STUDIO.
When people started complaining about bugs etc the forum admin started cutting them off the forum so they cannot post bad messages. At some point I had a company employee contacted me with the warning that I cannot say bad things about the product or the company because if I do I would be removed from the forum or perhaps even denied the license. That was like a slap in a face and I got extremely pissed of. I told them that with this attitude their future is rather doubtful. About two years later they got to the point of almost ZERO sells. At this moment CodeCharge Studio is very much abandoned, although it was very promising product.

https://www.yessoftware.com

http://www.windev.com

http://store.softvelocity.com

I also worked with another tool called CLARION from TopSpeed (later TopVelocity). IT was much better product than CodeChageSt. It had much less bugs and the bug fixing process was much better. They also have had huge user base. Unfortunately they only supported Windows. There were some tools for PHP/ASP apps but they were crappy. The worst part was the marketing. Because they did not sell lots of licenses they had to rise the price of the product (almost by 200%), then the userbase started to shrink. At some point they stopped any web oriented dev. and concentrated on Windows (that was the biggest mistake). Since then the user base became smaller and smaller.
About 2 years later new french company announced the new tool called WinDev, then later WebDev and 2 years later MobileDev. They used exactly same concept as CLARION did but with much more success. They also invested all earnings into building bigger developer base. The price for the product was high so they could afford to higher more developers and add extras.
At this moment CLARION is rather dead and PCSOFT thrives.
One thing that bothers me is that they have similar concept of developing everything in French then converting into English. This sucks because all DOCs and new improvements are usually about 3-6 months late comparing to the french version. At this moment for the price of $1500 you can get all 3 packages and 1 yer of updates. The fellow programmer who uses it says the software has everything that might be ever needed to develop Apps.

This is the story of 2 companies (YesSoftware and TopVelocity) who fall into the same scenario as NetMake. I guess this is the last call for SC to get things changed. In comparison I use tools from ANYWHERE SOFTWARE from Israel. It has several components (B4A, B4i, B4J). It is not a code generator as SC but it is excellent product. Support is top notch and the bugs are fixed very very fast. There is huge userbase and forum is excellent. It allows to use 3rd party libs and it is cheap. This company is an example of how to do the software business and comparing to NetMake it is like BLACK and WHITE.

https://www.b4x.com

I really wish NetMake success but I doubt their attitude will change anytime soon. It seems that we can scream and cry here but no one from NetMake cares (because they still getting pay-checks). It will change one day when there will be no money to pay them but it will be to late to rebuild. We are all developers here and we know that if we do not fix bugs one day we loose that customer (or bunch of customers). The market law is same for all and investing energy and time in sells while having poor product one day will reveal the BIG MISTAKE but it would be to late.
You might also check this

Arthur

#18

Short answer, NO. I agree with Arthur , check out his post on scriptcase alternatives

#19

I left CodeCharge in the past for the very same reason… 3 years for an update (5.0 -> 5.1), new bugs, problems converting projects… but at least I can edit the generated code. CodeCharge tracks the automatic generated code and the modified one. Simpler than SC. And generates ASP, PHP, C# and other languages code.

I swallow hard, choose to be a PHP only developer, ans switch to ScriptCase. Now I’m very nervous: I got now 4 major projects developed in SC.

I export and re-import a backup for test purposes: Madness: some projects return to old versions. I cannot touch generated code, because every new deploy re-write it. Workarounds? I spent more time doing workarounds than developing. All the time I gain for using a generator was lost due to little annoyances. And every update seems to break some AJAX, or buttons, or grid links or something. Every time.

So what? Instead of $200-$500 tools must we look into $3000 tools to be treated like we deserve?

After two years I bought SC, I’m still receiving mails to ask me how it goes with my “trial”. Not really a good sign, don’t you think.

I know there must be some hard to solve bugs… all I ask for is transparency…

#20

I think we need an open-source tool based on ScriptCase :stuck_out_tongue:

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